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Old 11-02-2019, 10:28 AM   #51
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines


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Thank you everyone for your interest.

Here is a project that I will be completing later this fall. Just a little teaser. The conditions were quite breezy at the time but overall a successful maiden.

X45 turbine in the Freewing 90mm F18

https://youtu.be/jqwzIMuZ6t8


Next project is on the bench....

dw
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:40 AM   #52
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

Many years ago at the Princetion B.C. Jet Rally father and son team, Wayne and Mike Beesley would bring an amazing Yellow Aircraft F22. Mike was / is an outstanding pilot and executes perfect take offs, an amazing flight routine and flawless landings. He is a natural and today is piloting commercial transatlantic flights for Canada's major air carriers.
Now Mike is an outstanding pilot but what I did not realize at the time was what a 'sleeper' the F22 is. It is a joy to fly in all aspects of flight. Somewhere between a conventional aircraft and a delta, it exhibits the best flight characteristics of both aerodynamic designs. Low gear placement results in a lowered Cg, lifting body and twin tail make it really stable in flight and the full flying stab allows for easy pitch adjustment in flight. The large body and rather interesting exhaust outlet lends itself well to modeling. While some modelers in Europe have gone with a single engine / tail pipe set up down one exhaust tube many others have simply carved out a bit of foam underneath the jet and mounted the turbine at the very back between the stabs.
I am going to go with a simple approach on this one. A single 800 cc tank and JP 60mm brakes to operate out of our paved runway should do it. The Freewing F22 90mm is a big bird with a lot of lift. Some guys are using 12S on high performance motors, afterburner and nav lights and brakes, bringing the weight well over 2 lbs from the original. I don't think this conversion is going to be problematic.

Here is a video of the amazing flight characteristics of the Freewing F22 under turbine power ( 30 N )

https://youtu.be/fwzyQ1w1qz8
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:56 AM   #53
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

wait a second here, a Mig, F18 and F22 all turbined powered and your still cheaper than my Havoc without an engine?? I think your on to something

AM
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Old 11-04-2019, 07:56 PM   #54
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

nudge, nudge…..wink, wink Angus

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Old 11-05-2019, 04:49 AM   #55
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

So here was a shocker!
The original F22 EDF did have the afterburner lights from RC Geek but still!
That's .65 lb ( 11 oz approx. ) difference!
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:46 AM   #56
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

I seem to start each project with the fitting of a fuel tank. The wing spar placement often determines where the tank can go and the capacity involved. At a latter date I may play a bit with underslung / functional fuel tanks. Many years ago, Gary Mueller designed a scale, functional centerline fuel tank for the small BVM F16 which worked perfectly.

So, back to the F22. Constructed of EPO foam, the F22 is amazingly light for its size and has an impressive flight envelope. It features lots of different shades of grey so it is easily " color matched " should you need to touch it up. BTW….a little cocktail party trivia for you...Did you know that the real F22 has been plagued with issues surrounding its invisible to radar, paint coating? Cracking, splitting and peeling are common and it costs $60,000 an hour to repaint. I would have expected a bit better paint warranty on a $114 million dollar aircraft ( hey Jeremy...there is a contract for you...lol ) So... a word about the paint on foam aircraft. I have had good success using FROG low tack masking tape. After tearing off a strip of tape I place it on my jeans a couple of time to get more of the stickiness off and then apply it to airframe. It works very well at not pulling off the paint when removed.

Despite the dull colors, the F22 has simple gear / doors and a wide body making it a great subject for conversion. The ARF plus version retails for around $419 U.S which includes retracts and servos / less the EDF power unit /ESC. I have the PNP version which I have flown quite a lot and its the subject of this build. My F22 has the JP model 60mm electronic brakes and a Freewing 90mm main 60mm used for the nosewheel. As this model is being flown off of pavement I found these rubber coated wheels to last longer than the foam ones that come in the kit.
Another note....and this goes for most all ARF models. Be sure to check and locktite all the little set screws in the gear. Gear will quickly fail unless components are tight and slop free. The new style worm drive gear are quite good for the price but keep them clean ( use light machine oil, NEVER grease the screw jack as it will attract dirt ) and checked every 10 flights.
So here, I cut out the BOTTOM of the airframe to access the fuel tank area. A 800cc tank fits well. The cover will be trimmed and fit back in place with some inserted wood dowels in the foam and screws...Disregard the white foam showing... that area is being repainted so I was not worried about pulling color off..
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:39 AM   #57
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

60k an hour hey? I'd work 2 hours a year and take the rest off!
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:38 AM   #58
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

I use a variety of glues when working on foam jets. For quick attachments of light components I use medium CA ( not thin ) with a light spray of accelerate. Contrary to what you may have heard " foam safe " CA is not always required but do a test first. When I glue in wood dowel mounts, need to fill some space or need more of a wicking action into the foam cells then 30 minute epoxy works well. Household GOOP is perhaps my favorite for bonding foam/wood together. After roughing up the surface ( you actually want to see some light scarring/felt fingers ) I apply a thin layer of GOOP and let it set for about 30 seconds then bond the foam to wood etc. Allow it to set overnight and the result will be large chunks of foam removed if you ever have to take things apart. A word of warning, try to minimize the use of quick set epoxy, construction glues and the like. The glue dries too quickly and hard which does not allow it to adhere well to the flexible base that foam exhibits. Foam tack works very well too but can be hard to find. if you have come across other glues that work well please post your findings as well.

Here are some pics of the fuel tank in place with the cover that I made to keep it "locked in" I glued in a couple of support tabs inside the naca ducts and screwed a piece of polyply across that locks in the rear of the tank. The front is held in place by a wood block glued to the underside of the plate which in turn is screwed down to wood dowel inserts in the foam.

Now onto the turbine mounting in the rear of the F22.....
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:32 PM   #59
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

Another foam safe glue I have been using that works well for me and appears to be similar to foam tac ; is LePages 100 . Readily available at Home Depot and other hardware stores. Sticks well and dries fairly quickly. Also use it on my battery pack assembly before tab welding to keep things together.
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:24 PM   #60
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Re: Converting EDF to turbines

Fuel tanks that leak can be a frustration for many. I had received an email recently from a very discouraged fellow jet modeler who said that no matter what he did the header tank he was using would leak and he seemed to always have some air in it at the end of the flight.

After many emails, pictures and trail and error we traced the problem to the use of a small tank ( 8 oz ) that he was using as a combination header / UAT. This was not of the nalgene type with the large twist cap / metal fittings. It was a Dubro like tank with the rubber stopper, brass tubing and a metal cap. Though he did everything correct in the assembly, the leak eventually was found coming from the center screw that is used to compress the stopper. When these small tanks are not under any pressure there is no problem but when the small tank is filled and emptied by a fueling station ( 12 volts ) the pressure expansion/contraction can be too much. This may not likely occur on a larger tank as the internal volume and wall area is much greater. I suggested that he may want to try the nalgene tank offerings ( ie BVM, MAP etc ) and reduce pump voltage to 7.4 volts thus reducing the flow rate. He did...and life was good again.

Two vendors that I have used over the years for my tank / filling station needs are Jersey Modeler
- Dean @ www.jerseymodeler.com and John @ MAP RC products www.modelaviationproducts.com They are both great guys to deal with and have outstanding products. Look them up and check out their product line. I use the Jersey Modeler 2.5 gallon station and MAPs version of a header / UAT tank ( increased capacity ) for some of my small jets as well.
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